Kwai Cheung Kwong Foo Dau (1979) Title Question

[heinz Germany]

http://hkmdb.com/db/movies/view.mhtml?i ... ay_set=eng

It's a taiwanese Movie - but why is it a cantonese Title - Should be mandarin - isn't it..?

[calros]

changed.

[Michael Kistner]

With that cast the movie must be older - I guess around 1972. Very likely it is the same movie like that entry:

http://hkmdb.com/db/movies/view.mhtml?i ... ay_set=eng

[Bruce]

Or they both might be Invincible Iron Palm
http://hkmdb.com/db/movies/view.mhtml?i ... ay_set=eng

[calros]

I found the right Chinese title for 9577.
It is 三十六彈腿
Fixed.

According to Taiwan Cinema Note 三十六彈腿 was called in English "36 Tan Tui" and is a different movie from 5278 "Invincible Iron Palm".

http://movie.cca.gov.tw/People/Content.asp?ID=18

Maybe 9610 is an alias of one of those 2 movies but which of them?

[kenichiku]

According to Taiwan Cinema Note 三十六彈腿 was called in English "36 Tan Tui"

I don't think that's their 'official' English title. IMO, it's their editor's less than assertive way to represent missing information (just like you are trying to do here) by filling in an 'official' English title. It was not uncommon that local Taiwan releases didn't have English titles (or English credits & subtitling for that matter) especially for non-HK distributed productions so if it was released in British run HK & beyond, it most likely had an English title, no matter what this state sponsored DB says it is.

No definitive answer from me so all I can offer is some Jedi wisdom. Hint: if you were to Google a bit further, concentrate on it's Chinese meaning: 'tan (or dan) tui', ['tan', mando for 'egg' or 'bomb', 'tui' for 'leg' or 'kicking' i.e. 'bomb kicks', 'explosive kicks', 'killer kicks', 'deadly kicks' etc.]. You Kung Fu film experts can take it from here.

[kenichiku]

It's a taiwanese Movie - but why is it a cantonese Title - Should be mandarin - isn't it..?

Well Heinz, the HKMDB uses Mainland official Potunghua for all their transliterated representations no matter what dialect the entry is originally exhibited and I've been boasting an ambidextrous international approach with my Chinese related entries at IMDB but you guys don't have to follow suit with either of these. If you deem this DB to be Cantonese oriented as your primary default dialect to represent all titles & staff, then there's nothing wrong with leaving a Taiwan or Mainland title with a Cantonese bias. Hell, the schizophrenic translators at Celestial/IVL still haven't sorted this very issue out with their shaky track record at subtitle translating for their re-masters. Back to titling I cite an official example, Li Han Hsiang's 1958 Mandarin opera without a traditional English title: 'Diau Charn' was transliterated with old-school Southeast Asian (Indonesian/Malaysian/Singaporean) acculturated English romanization practices because the studio was still commuting from Singapore yet to open up shop fully in HK but if this title was coined by someone fully established in HK with Mandarin knowledge proficient in English, it might have been represented as 'Dou Chan' or 'Dieu Chung' in Cantonese, etc. but the cultural lens of the studio was still domiciled in Singapore i.e. not yet assimilated to British-HK linguistic practices at that time so it all has to do with context. In this example, it doesn't adhere to EITHER Mandarin or Cantonese Chinese romanization systems as we recognize them to be now & I will never apply my own biases into changing it to adhere to any prevailing cultural linguistic mantra or any other personal dialectic preference in this case because that's the way THEY presented it officially. As one of you have stated to me here appropriately, usage dictates the incumbency of this title's representation so perhaps likewise you should all go with the flow.

It's a simple matter of policy (& that's for mgmt to decide) but if you had to choose one or the other, I'm sure your decision would have to consider what scale of mobilizing would be involved with your data being re-translated i.e. a massive re-editing campaign just to adhere with a consistency rule? Your valuable time might be a better spent for more constructive pursuits. I think scrutiny should be applied for editing past represented (still accurate & error free) names & data should remain as-is especially if the way it is represented was done so 'officially' by the authored studio of a title (however erroneous we may think of it now) but it's delicate food-for-thought & management's call. This culturally laced Information Technology problem is best suited for those maturing well-rounded data-architects who can not only play straight chess, but 3 dimensional chess & can foresee a bit of the future while taking the pulse of the prevailing culture to represent the majority of your web based user audience from here on out, never mind us old-schoolers who'll be outta here in a decade, or two,...or three, or four.

[leecoo]

I found the right Chinese title too.

It's 鬼手龍虎鬥 for 9610.

http://movie.cca.gov.tw/People/Content.asp?ID=33

I think 9577 and 5278 to be the same title because there is a description of "三十六彈腿" to 5278 lobby cards.

[calros]

According to Taiwan Cinema Note 三十六彈腿 was called in English "36 Tan Tui"

I don't think that's their 'official' English title. IMO, it's their editor's less than assertive way to represent missing information (just like you are trying to do here) by filling in an 'official' English title. It was not uncommon that local Taiwan releases didn't have English titles

It is not necessary the English Title of a Taiwanese film is "official English title" to be added as English Title in our DB. As you say, many Taiwanese movies would not have English Title in our DB, if we search only for its "official English title".

No definitive answer from me so all I can offer is some Jedi wisdom. Hint: if you were to Google a bit further, concentrate on it's Chinese meaning: 'tan (or dan) tui', ['tan', mando for 'egg' or 'bomb', 'tui' for 'leg' or 'kicking' i.e. 'bomb kicks', 'explosive kicks', 'killer kicks', 'deadly kicks' etc.].

According to Chinese Kung Fu sites the translation should be "Snap Kick". Added.

In the HKMDB we must use Cantonese or Mandarin standard romanizations if we do not know exactly how is romanizated a title. In the case of Taiwanese movies we use Mandarin romanizations because they are closer to the original romanization than Cantonese ones, although they are not the "real" romanization at all, of course.

[calros]

I found the right Chinese title too.

It's 鬼手龍虎鬥 for 9610.

http://movie.cca.gov.tw/People/Content.asp?ID=33

I think 9577 and 5278 to be the same title because there is a description of "三十六彈腿" to 5278 lobby cards.

where are these lobby cards?

[leecoo]

I found the right Chinese title too.

It's 鬼手龍虎鬥 for 9610.

http://movie.cca.gov.tw/People/Content.asp?ID=33

I think 9577 and 5278 to be the same title because there is a description of "三十六彈腿" to 5278 lobby cards.

where are these lobby cards?

Sorry.
It writes in the handbill here.
http://hkmdb.com/db/movies/image_detail ... e_id=20386

[kenichiku]

According to Chinese Kung Fu sites the translation should be "Snap Kick". Added.

Oops wrong 'tan' as in 'dan1' (as not as in 'zi dan' (bullet) but 'dan2' as in 'elastic snap' or 'recoil'). Thanks for the clarification Cal. In either case, I still smell an 'official' English title here somewhere.

In the HKMDB we must use Cantonese or Mandarin standard romanizations if we do not know exactly how is romanizated a title.

I think we're both saying the same thing (with the glaring exception of the Li Han Hsiang example being an 'official' title coined with a style they used to practice in Southeast Asia transplanted in a HK mandarin title). I just didn't know what stance HKMDB took before now so I replied to Heinz' more informed query with my clueless hunches guessing you guys went Cantonese for everybody & everything except where popular usage dictated otherwise, no matter where the title came from. Also since I see that you have tons of staff in your rosters that wasn''t involved with any HK or Cantonese cinema related credits to their name yet they bear Cantonese transliterations. If it's deliberate to aim for the consistency you just clarified as you say, I get it now. If not, I realize that it's just evolutionary & a work in progress towards updating to achieve dialectic consistency.

In the case of Taiwanese movies we use Mandarin romanizations because they are closer to the original romanization than Cantonese ones, although they are not the "real" romanization at all, of course.

That's the thing, what we're all trying to rationalize, quantify & justify is muddled by dynamic forces of linguistic usage & prevailing colloquial conventions practiced thru time & cultural geography.

[calros]

I found the right Chinese title too.

It's 鬼手龍虎鬥 for 9610.

http://movie.cca.gov.tw/People/Content.asp?ID=33

You are right. Changed. Thank you. Your title is correct although I am not sure the cast and crew we have in the HKMDB is correct.

I think 9577 and 5278 to be the same title because there is a description of "三十六彈腿" to 5278 lobby cards. It writes in the handbill here.
http://hkmdb.com/db/movies/image_detail ... e_id=20386

Yes, you are right, "36 Tan Tui" (三十六彈腿) appears written there but in another way (卅六彈腿). This does not mean necessarily they are the same movie, maybe "36 Tan Tui" is actually a sequel of "The Invincible Iron Palm". If they were the same movie, why they appear separately (and in 2 different years) in the filmography of Charlie Chin? http://movie.cca.gov.tw/People/Content.asp?ID=18

[leecoo]

Yes, you are right, "36 Tan Tui" (三十六彈腿) appears written there but in another way (卅六彈腿). This does not mean necessarily they are the same movie, maybe "36 Tan Tui" is actually a sequel of "The Invincible Iron Palm". If they were the same movie, why they appear separately (and in 2 different years) in the filmography of Charlie Chin? http://movie.cca.gov.tw/People/Content.asp?ID=18

Thank you.

I think that it means the Pai Yin plays "36 Tan Tui" style Kung Fu in
"Invincible Iron Palm" film.

I'll try to confirm with the video.