Favourite Confusers

[STSH]

Think of a film which usually contains wu'xia (flying people), swordfighting, historical settings, actors in colourful and wild costumes, and mind-bogglingly complex plots.

While not exactly a genre, the Confuser is a type of film which used to be produced in quantity in Hong Kong and Taiwan, particularly in the 1970s and 1980s.

So, what are your five favourite Confusers (and, briefly, why ?)

Mine are, in no particular order :

1. Kung Fu Cult Master
One of the first I saw of this type. Made quite an impression.

2. 18 Jade Arhats
One of the first Polly Kuan vehicles I saw.

3. Shaolin Kung Fu Mystagogue
A wild stew of great fu talent, and heaps of gimmicks

4. Holy Flame Of The Martial Arts World.
Packed with gimmicks, and proceeds at a cracking pace

5. Deadly Sword
Barry Chan as the star usually guarantees a minimal level of wild confusion, and this one is no exception.


... and yes, the often have wild English titles as well.

[Brian Thibodeau]

Do KUNG FU VS. ACROBATIC and FLYING DAGGER count, or are they too recent? Is Confuser an actual term for wild n' crazy movies? Does it only apply to period fantasies and such, or are contemporary-set films allowed too?

[STSH]

Do KUNG FU VS. ACROBATIC and FLYING DAGGER count, or are they too recent?

Yes, they'd qualify.

Is Confuser an actual term for wild n' crazy movies?

It's a term I made up, seeing as there is no existing expression which even slightly covers all of the above. Even "wu'xia" covers only part of it.

Does it only apply to period fantasies and such, or are contemporary-set films allowed too?

I have'nt seen many contemporary-set films which come anywhere near as wil and confusing as historicals. But I'd be pleased to hear of any you think may qualify.

[MrBooth]

Hehe, good term! Many of Chor Yuen's Gu Long adaptations would qualify... well, practically any Gu Long adaptation in fact. One I remember particularly impressing (when I got my first DVD player and the world of shoddily subtitled imports was opened up) was Michael Mak's BUTTERFLY & SWORD. I remember coming out of the room and remarking to a friend:

"I have absolutely no idea what that film was about!"

"Oh dear " he replied, looking sympathetic.

"It was absolutely brilliant! "

For some reason, people started thinking I was a bit strange around then

[Marky]

I often find that Tsui Hark movies have this confusing effect on me when I watch them for the first time. They feel quite obvious when watching them a second time though so it might only be me and the way Hark tells his stories that doesn't quite match.

It doesn't matter that much though, his movies are usually entertaining anyway.

[STSH]

Hehe, good term! Many of Chor Yuen's Gu Long adaptations would qualify... well, practically any Gu Long adaptation in fact.

Yes, we're on the same wavelength. And many of the Confusers I've seen were Gu Long stories, or similar.

I'm looking to expand my viewing range of these great and weird films

One I remember particularly impressing (when I got my first DVD player and the world of shoddily subtitled imports was opened up) was Michael Mak's BUTTERFLY & SWORD. I remember coming out of the room and remarking to a friend:

"I have absolutely no idea what that film was about!"

"Oh dear " he replied, looking sympathetic.

"It was absolutely brilliant! "

Exactly !
.. and having Kung Fu Vs Acrobatic as my first authentic HK movie experience, I can only agree totally.

[Brian Thibodeau]

Here's a couple that have always left me scratching my head.

TAOISM DRUNKARD and MIRACLE FIGHTERS. That giggling spirit thingy with the two sided mask still creeps me out to this day.

[Mike Thomason]

Can't say I've ever encountered a Hong Kong film whose narrative was so impenetrable that it left me confused. Even amongst the majority of titles already noted (excepting those I haven't seen), nothing herein ever baffled me. Things I didn't fully understand, I just sourced information and read about them so that I did -- even Brian's twin masked spirit made perfect sense to me. *sigh* I feel so alone...

[MrBooth]

I found a load of old reviews I wrote (on paper, would you believe?) when packing stuff for my move... scanning some of them in now... here's what I wrote about "Handsome Siblings":

"Plot - makes almost no sense! Lots of intrigue & betrayals, no one can tell Brigitte Lin is a woman again, lots of poisonings + stuff exploding"

I think that means I liked it

[Brian Thibodeau]

Oh, I understood the two-sided spirit maske creature in MIRACLE FIGHTERS just fine. It just creeped me out with that laugh.

I tend to agree with Mike that most of the movies mentioned here do make sense on some level, moreso if one has either seen a lot of Hong Kong cinema in all its forms or is willing to do some background research for context. Still, they do get pretty wild sometimes, almost as if the filmmakers themselves had attention deficit disorder rather than anyone in the audience! I can see Kung-Fu Cult Master causing some eyebrows to be raised, particularly near the end, since if feels so incomplete once the followup was never made.

[MrBooth]

If you're still wondering what happens after KUNG FU CULT MASTER ends, pick up Chor Yuen's 2-part HEAVEN SWORD & DRAGON SABRE films, which are based on the same story. Even at 200 minutes total running time it's hard to follow though!

[Brian Thibodeau]

Thanks for the tips. Both of those are currently sitting in my "to watch" pile, which now reaches somewhere in the range of 7,000 feet high!

[MrBooth]

Mount Thibodeau?

[Brian Thibodeau]

Some of tried to climb it. None have ever come back.

[bkasten]

Getting back to the original premise of confusing plots, I can say that with Jin Yong novels, unless you have read the books, and/or know the stories, there is no way you can understand what is going on. A not insignificant percentage of Chinese kids, by the time they are teenagers, have read most if not all of Jin Yong and Gu Long's books, so the very brief 90 minute-or-so movie versions they see make, while incredibly simplified, make perfect sense. The 35-40 hour mini-series renditions are about adequate to give an accurate outline of the novels.

[Brian Thibodeau]

I guess many folks will always be doomed to outsider status when it comes to these films, although even without having read the books, I generally don't find them terribly confusing, just jam packed with a lot of stuff!. They obviously still have appeal as fantasy films. Not sure if I'd have time to read a novel everytime I saw the film adaptation, anyway, but have any of their works been adapted into English to date?