Data addition: Bill Wong Chung-Piu

[ciakmull]

Cinematographer:
Esprit d'Amour (1983)
Romance of Book and Sword (1987)
Princess Fragrance (1987)

[calros]

Hey, Mr. Ciakmull, 30 posts in only 3 days! Very soon you will reach me! Accidenti!

I'm not sure if Bill Wong Chung-Piu did the photo in "Romance of Book And Sword". My data coincides with the HKMDb: it was Sai Muk Siu Yee (Xi Mu Xiao Er for his friends) the cinematographer of that film.

This guy was nominated for the Best Cinematography HKFA in 1987 for that film. Only him, I mean...

Where did you get that information?

[ciakmull]

Hi,

I checked the HKFAA site, probably you are right. I have a copy on vhs of the movie and the english credits say that Bill Wong was the cinematographer. John Charles' HK Filmography confirmedy my information. I'll try to find more info on this question checking the credits on the vcds.

I'm pretty sure about Esprit d'Amour.

I don't think I can continue posting 20 messages everyday as I did yesterday. I run a website, so I write down every missing field or any probable error I find on hkmdb.com. Now I have a lot of papers with corrections and questions. I discovered just few days ago this section of the forum, so I'm here...

[calros]

I only added Bill Wong to "Esprit d'amour".
If you get more information about the other two films, we can talk about it.

[ciakmull]

I finally found a reliable source that seems to confirm my suggestion.

Here's a scan patchwork from the 24th Hong Kong International Film Festival Retrospective Catalogue ("Border Crossings in Hong Kong Cinema"):

[calros]

Your source seems to be correct, but all the chinese sites I visited confirmed my cinematographer. For example:

http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=cache ... lang_zh-TW

I searched the keywords "Bill Wong" and "Romance of Book and Sword" together for double checking, and I found a chinese page which lists all the nominees in the cinematographer category from 1982 to 1997. And Bill Wong, who appears 10 (!) times nominated, is not listed for that film...

http://www.google.com.hk/search?q=cache ... 9&hl=zh-TW

I sought this film in a german satelite TV channel in 1995 and they translated the cinematographer as Xi Mu Xiao Er.

The best solution, Mr. Ciakmull, is posting the screen capture of the chinese credits. If you prove your affirmation with it, I promise that I won't distrust you never again and I will apologize publicly!!!!

[dleedlee]

Queston ciakmull: How is the Border Crossings publication? I haven't picked that one up yet. Can you scan the index page and post? I would be much obliged, and also to hear your opinion, too.

[ciakmull]

The screenshots credit seem to confirm that Sai Muk Siu Yee is the cinematographer. But I'm still not convinced (see the Boat People discussion with dleedlee to understand my point).

The problem is that...
1) This person have just these two credits (http://www.hkmdb.com/db/people/view.mhtml?id=6870&display_set=eng);
2) Ann Hui's movie is a co-production with Mainland China and maybe some technician name has been wrote down in a different way (or using a nickname; but to prove it we need a chinese editor);
3) The HKIFF Catalogue is published by the HKFilm Archive, the maximum HK authority for these matters (in my opinion ).

I found an american website that confirm my thesis, but I think they took their info from the John Charles' HK Filmography I mentioned some post ago:
http://www.brns.com/pages4/drama164.html

There's also a korean festival website, I wonder if they're reliable...
http://www.film2.co.kr/festival/piff-2002/guide/guide_person.asp?pkey=1559

More proofs needed... I'll continue my investigation

[ciakmull]

Vcd screenshots:

[ciakmull]

Vcd screenshots:

[ciakmull]

Another important proof is the Hong Kong Film Archive Hong Kong Filmography (the file you call Chinchanchung's Hong Kong Film Archive Book). In the Romance of Book and Sword entry (no. 7825) the name Sai Muk Siu Yee is listed as an alias of Bill Wong. The strange thing is that in this file there's no trace of Princess Fragrance.

[calros]

Your arguments begin to convince me...

1) As you say, this film is a co-production, and I know that co-productions use different technicians from the two countries... (the international version of "Wheels on Meals" credited spanish Francisco Riba as cinematographer of that film...). This may explain that HK sources credited "your" cinematographer and China version credited "my" cinematographer.

2) Also is very odd that "my" cinematographer only did 2 films in all his life...

3) Wong worked with Ann Hui in other film...

4) My ONLY doubt is the award. Why they did not put their real name in the nominees list? As you say, we need an chinese editor. Also is very odd that Mr. Deedlee did not post something to crush my theory...

ANNEX 1) BTW, as Mr. Dleedlee, I am also curious about your "Border Crossings"... I want its index post, too (please).

ANNEX 2) In the Chinchanchung's version of Film Book Archive does not appear "Romance of Book..." nor "Princess Fragrance". In the entry that you say 7825 appears the film "Gigolo and Whore II". Do you have another version of the Film Book Archive? WHERE IS IT?

ANNEX 3) Please, don't remove these photos, this week-end I'll try to add all your valuable information.

ANNEX 4) If I can check that 7825 entry, and nobody objects in 30 days, I will merge the two cinematographers.

[ciakmull]

ANNEX 2) In the Chinchanchung's version of Film Book Archive does not appear "Romance of Book..." nor "Princess Fragrance". In the entry that you say 7825 appears the film "Gigolo and Whore II". Do you have another version of the Film Book Archive? WHERE IS IT?

ANNEX 4) If I can check that 7825 entry, and nobody objects in 30 days, I will merge the two cinematographers

Oops... It's 7285... (7825 is Gigolo and Whore II in my version too)

I downloaded the file here:
http://www.lcsd.gov.hk/CE/CulturalService/HKFA/english/archivefct4.html

[calros]

Well, Mr. Ciakmull, you have won. Chapeau!

I apologize publicly and profusely.

From now I will always trust in your word. I only will demand proofs when I had problems or doubts with the Big5s.

And if nobody objects in 29 days...

-----------------------------------------------------

I will wait 15 days more until we solve the Chan Wan affair...

[ciakmull]

Well, Mr. Ciakmull, you have won. Chapeau!
I apologize publicly and profusely.
From now I will always trust in your word. I only will demand proofs when I had problems or doubts with the Big5s.

Thank you for all the corrections you did. It's stimulating discuss and search proofs with you. I prefer you continue to show your doubts so we can be sure of any addition and of any change.

This is the way the winner show his kindness...


I didn't read the catalogue yet, so I cannot say how it is. But all the HKIFF publications I saw are really accurate and interesting. I'm now reading the old catalogues focused on old cantonese cinema, my actual passion... and they're really good (and frustrating: I would like to see all those movies but I'm not able to find a lot of them). My question is: there aren't catalogue after 2000? The last one available at HKIFF website (where I buy usually Hong Kong books) is "Border Crossings".

[calros]

Your kindness towards the defeated ones honors you.

Thank you very much for your scan and commentary.

[calros]

Added 1 producer, 1 presenter, 3 music composers, 4 art directors; fixed the typo with 1 actor and with the action director (Ng Gin Keung, somebody mistook him with Woo Gin Keung).

I can not see well several names, including the family name of the writer. But neither "your friends" of the HKFA: in your post they put 泰洗心 (tan sai sam) and in the Chinchanchung HKFA Book the put 秦洗心 (chun sai sam). But I gorgive them, that symbols are very similar:
泰 秦

More errors in that file: Ng Gin Keung 吳堅強 is put as Woo Gin Keung 胡堅強

BTW, in that file you will find "Princess Fragrance", too (entry 7290). You did not find it because they did a typo.

Also I do not believe that Ann Hui and Louis Cha himself collaborated in the script... (It would be the first adaptation they do)

Several members of the crew of the 2 films (musicians, art directors...) are different (but your "reliable source" did not note that). But I forgive it, because I am magnanimous, too