Twins Mission (and Contemporary HK Cinema discussion)

[Mike Thomason]

Has anyone else here seen this yet? I caught it on the big screen while I was in Kuching, Sarawak during Chinese New Year and, unfortunately for me, the projectionist at the cinema I saw it decided to cut the end credits before the epilogue ending came up (the film ends with a title card similar to "keep watching to see how the story really ends").

So, if anyone's seen it and stayed until the very end could they be ever so helpful as to let me know exactly what happened? I want to know what happened to Yuen Wah's character and Snake Soup and Snake Congee.

Thanks in advance!

[dleedlee]

Sorry, haven't seen it.

[Mike Thomason]

This is out on DVD in Hong Kong on April 4th, so I will get an answer to my own question in just over two weeks.

[Mike Thomason]

Well, have just received my DVD copy of the movie and...there's no footage during or after the end credits! Though there is a title-card that comes up before the end credits that says "Keep watching to see how the story ends"...there is nothing more on offer!

Did ANYONE see this theatrically and can confirm whether or not there was additional footage after the credits? It seems bizarre to me for the filmmakers to utilise a cinematic "trick" like that, then not follow through! Was the film intended as the first in a series?

I feel deflated...

[Brian Thibodeau]

I know you're not fond of posts like this that don't directly answer questions posed, but I thought I'd share your deflation for a moment, as I was watching this on the instore TV in a local Chinese media shop a few nights ago and was rather surprised when their disc ended the same way you describe (she popped out the disc just as the credits were starting, but your post confirms there was no need to have her pop it back in!). Having forgotten my wallet at home that day, I couldn't really buy anything (even from my beloved bargain bins ), but I blindly asked the lady if there was a part 2, and she said "Don't know!" She even asked the other girl who was working there, but she didn't know either (though I know that one doesn't really care much for HK movies, as she's said so in the past. Silly girl! ). I'll probably still pick it up anyways, for the sake of completeness, but I hope this doesn't become the Big Movie Mystery of 2007! It'd be nice not to have to double dip down the road on this one (or is there more than one edition out there already?), or worse, watch some lengthy TV series to catch up.

[Mike Thomason]

I know you're not fond of posts like this that don't directly answer questions posed...

That's okay Brian! I'm quite used to the fact that hardly anyone here* watches contemporary Hong Kong movies...

* well, that actually goes for virtually the entire internet these days! I'm the only person I know who still keeps abreast of current films...

[password789456]

good movies. very attractive actors, and actresses.

[Brian Thibodeau]

I'm the only person I know who still keeps abreast of current films...

Well, nothing subjective about that, I suppose!

I think it's safe to say you're not the only one, but I guess I can understand why you'd feel that way. You might, however, be one of the fortunate few who has been able to find the time to consistently stay abreast, if the admittedly paltry discussions of current HK cinema that you mention are anything to go on, but I don't feel it's fair to rule out so many people you know out just because none of us seem to be keeping abreast based on what we write online! (and I did note your mention of "hardly anyone" so I know you're not being all-inclusive!)

When I rifle through my containers of "currently-being-watched" movies, or the stacks and stacks of VCDs I've been purchasing of late—or indeed the many new releases I list over in that "scrounge" thread—I see one heck of a lot of stuff that was never discussed by anyone (including yourself) at any forums in years past, as searches of many, many of these titles here and elsewhere have turned up nothing, not even a piddly review in most cases. Thanks to people being stuck on new releases and reissues of popular titles for so long, I'm finding myself doing a lot of extra research for a lot of titles that people have either felt were beneath them, missed outright for whatever reason (cost, location, etc.), or probably don't even know exist. Busy work sometimes, and it sure would have been nice if people had discussed these films when they were new!

[Mike Thomason]

I have to admit...I'm absolutely terrible when it comes to anything that was shot on video, be it digital video or otherwise. For me, personally, unless it's HD (and can thereby pass for film) then shot-on-video features get the automatic kiss of death from me.

But I do try my best to keep up with the latest theatrical features, albeit as soon as they hit DVD in Hong Kong -- or alternatively in cinemas when I'm abroad in Sarawak, Malaysia.

I'm not really "writing everyone off" as it is, but I do tend to see less and less discussion of contemporary HK features these days across the board on the internerd. What (extremely) little I do see seems to be being written by folk who a) haven't kept abreast of HK movies since the late nineties and thereby holds little value to me as exhibited current knowledge of the industry proves negligible or vague or b) have little to no knowledge of HK cinema and are coming to it very belatedly. Accordingly, it then becomes exceedingly difficult to assess such discourse over the region's cinematic output being that there's very little of contemporary worth being expounded. For example, I finally watched Derek Yee's Protege today and found it to be quite an exemplary slice of cinema as well as quite "adult" filmmaking from a HK filmmaker...but there's next to no comment or discussion on the film out there in cyberspace at present, leaving me to muse its value on my lonesome...

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject and now I have to wrack my brain to try and figure out what recent Korean films to buy next...

[Brian Thibodeau]

I have to admit...I'm absolutely terrible when it comes to anything that was shot on video, be it digital video or otherwise. For me, personally, unless it's HD (and can thereby pass for film) then shot-on-video features get the automatic kiss of death for me.

In many cases, they should, especially some of the Category III stuff, but that of course in no way diminishes their importance to the Hong Kong cinema canon (and in no way excuses the lack of information & discussion available about them, in my opinion), but here's another problem I have with avoiding them: many of them ARE shot on film, but one wouldn't know it unless one gave them a chance. Despite the cheap prices I'm paying for VCDs lately, I try to be selective: many, MANY of the titles I've listed in the Scrounge thread, not to mention many of those picked up by Bearserk in recent hauls, are actual film productions.

Purely as an example, I can point to several Phillip Ko movies (including PAYMENT IN BLOOD, FINAL EDGE and the oddly-renamed EXFERNAL AFFAIRS) that didn't even have entries in the DB until I uploaded the information. And yet, all three are full-blown film productions with modest budgets. Thus, anyone who claims they've seen every Hong Kong film made in 2000, 2001 and 2002 would have to have seen these by default (or de-faulty logic ), but good luck finding anyone who ever mentioned it anywhere!

On occasion I'll use the Scrounge thread to post a few rambling words about some little gem I found amidst the lumps of coal. In this case, 1990's FATAL PASSION (with Alex Man) and 2000's TREASURE HUNTER (with Chin Siu-ho and Monica Chan) spring to mind.

I found virtually nothing about either of these films at any of the sites I'd have figured would have something. I went through dozens and dozens of pages of web search "hits" to find nothing more than retail listings for the films; no reviews, no discussion, no nothing. So I gave them some attention in the forum, and will eventually post the reviews I wrote, and while no one really responded other than to say they were suddenly interested in picking them up, at least I know somebody MIGHT stumble across my info down the road, and that's the best I can hope for these titles. Hell, I couldn't find anything on FATAL PASSION in any of my HK film books (even Fonoroff's, and it falls within the range of years he covers. Hell, even that scuzz Weisser never found it!), and yet it's by far one of the most entertaining films from 1990 I've yet to see, albeit belatedly. But did everyone else simply avoid it over the past 17 years? That's the kind of question I end up asking myself repeately as I plow through these discs.

When all is said and done though, I'm just glad there's still discussion of Hong Kong cinema at all, new or old. And as you're one of the more passionate writers on the topic, I often wish you could take the same approach. Surely you're not just about new releases when there's so many old ones out there so obviously awaiting discovery?

On the subject of new releases, though, I've found up-to-date reviews at places like LoveHKfilm, and even DVDTalk, of all places. Unfortunately, LoveHKfilm doesn't seem to have a forum. DVDtalk does, but I don't know how involved their "international DVD" thread or whatever it's called, really is. So yeah, discussion of Hong Kong cinema, in general, is probably just spread a bit wide, but not overly deep, if anything.

What (extremely) little I do see seems to be being written by folk who a) haven't kept abreast of HK movies since the late nineties and thereby holds little value to me as exhibited current knowledge of the industry proves negligible or vague or b) have little to no knowledge of HK cinema and are coming to it very belatedly.

I have to admit, people that fall into the "a" camp sure sound like they'd be out of the loop a bit, but what's so bad about the folks in group "b"? My own interest in Hong Kong cinema started around 1989 and I've always considered myself late to the party, especially once I ventured into Chinatown and saw just how deep the back catalogue was even then! But the fact that newcomers are still discovering the joys of Hong Kong cinema, both new and old, is a huge part of what makes it so appealing to me, and an even bigger reason why I don't feel the need to rip off the rear-view mirror: I know that even the old stuff still has the power to suck people in just the way I was (including some who post some very heartfelt reviews here as a result), and since there's so much old stuff out there that's still unaccounted for by any of us, most of us will continute to be latecomers on a film-by-film basis for many years to come. And I, for one, like the idea.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject and now I have to wrack my brain to try and figure out what recent Korean films to buy next...

Hopefully you'll find the discussions more fulfilling over at koreanfilm.org! Although trust me, I've found myself discussing new movies with myself on more than one occasion over there!

[Mike Thomason]

Purely as an example, I can point to several Phillip Ko movies (including PAYMENT IN BLOOD, FINAL EDGE and the oddly-renamed EXFERNAL AFFAIRS) that didn't even have entries in the DB until I uploaded the information. And yet, all three are full-blown film productions with modest budgets. Thus, anyone who claims they've seen every Hong Kong film made in 2000, 2001 and 2002 would have to have seen these by default (or de-faulty logic ), but good luck finding anyone who ever mentioned it anywhere!

Ah, well, you see...there you go. Phillip Ko isn't exactly what I'd term a "Hong Kong" filmmaker anymore, being that he's lived and worked out of the Philippines since an escalating swag of triad-related debts forced him to hide out there in the early nineties. Ko, to the best of my knowledge, is still based in the Philippines and draws on fading (or faded, in some cases) HK talent to bolster his productions with thereby creating the illusion of a "Hong Kong production". But I digress...

No, I'm not just a new release entity -- but my whole point is, from my side of things, that I get incredibly bored of reading about the same old films (you know, the primary titles from the so-called "Golden Era" in the eighties and early nineties) over and over and OVER again. Year in, year out, all I ever see discussed on the 'net is Jackie and Sammo's old films, John Woo's early stuff and a literal handful of other titles from the same era -- or folks harping on about the "good old days" in comparison to the present...when they're not even watching the films being released now! People crap on and on about contemporary stars and pour out this rhetorical bullshit about how the Twins and any other popstar aren't "actors" -- forgetting that back in their day Andy Lau, Anita Mui, Aaron Kwok, Kelly Chen and their like were also blasted and derided for being "pop singers that can't act their way out of a wet paper bag". I personally see just as much energy, talent and vitality with many of today's stars as I did with anyone from the past; I'm just not so insular as to hold onto the past like it's a sacred cow that should never be questioned or compared with the present.

Hardly anyone out there these days seems interested in talking about contemporary HK cinema, so it becomes harder and harder to find information about new films for an English speaking individual like myself (of course, I now have my wife here who speaks half a dozen different Chinese dialects, so that does make things moderately easier for me). Even the mentioned LoveHKFilm, although I appreciate Ross' efforts, I have long since passed the point where I find his repetitive (and cynical) style readable anymore -- when he writes up a new film I click the link, read the header with director and cast listings, then seldom if ever read much more of the following review. I'm sure people will say the same about me eventually when and if I ever get my website rolling, but at present there's precious little of anything contemporary being talked about to even quantify that HK actually HAS a film industry.

This thread was a classic example -- amidst THE online database for HK movies, and amongst a phalanx of people one would expect to be at least making a moderate effort to stay abreast of the industry...not a solitary response! Never mind that the film was one of THE major releases for this past Chinese New Year holiday season, no-one here saw it! One person posted to pass comment that they hadn't seen it...

Well, I'm going to tootle off now and continue my rant into empty space and dead air, as I'm sure I'll tire of my own voice very shortly...but at least I won't be talking about the same old films that everyone was talking about twenty years ago, and continued to talk about ad infinitum.

NB: LoveHKFilm DOES have a forum -- you can access it from the "Forum" link in the toolbar at the top of the main page.

[Brian Thibodeau]

No, I'm not just a new release entity -- but my whole point is, from my side of things, that I get incredibly bored of reading about the same old films (you know, the primary titles from the so-called "Golden Era" in the eighties and early nineties) over and over and OVER again. Year in, year out, all I ever see discussed on the 'net is Jackie and Sammo's old films, John Woo's early stuff and a literal handful of other titles from the same era -- or folks harping on about the "good old days" in comparison to the present...when they're not even watching the films being released now!

but at least I won't be talking about the same old films that everyone was talking about twenty years ago, and continued to talk about ad infinitum.

Ouch!

Well, some of us here—myself included—WEREN'T part of those glorious days when the internet-based Hong Kong movie mavericks were talking up a storm about all the great Hong Kong cinema past and present for the first time, so I suspect some folks are actually as appreciative of discussions about the same-old-same-old as they are of your thoughts on the new stuff (rare as those seem to be around here) I almost feel bad that I wasn't hip back when members of the old guard were apparently having all the important discussions about Hong Kong cinema the first time around (but since they apparently never stopped, I guess I needn't look too far! ). Ironically, I don't actually mind your input on these films "everyone was talking about twenty years ago," but hey, I've try to persuade but this is where it usually gets me!

Ah, well, you see...there you go. Phillip Ko isn't exactly what I'd term a "Hong Kong" filmmaker anymore, being that he's lived and worked out of the Philippines since an escalating swag of triad-related debts forced him to hide out there in the early nineties. Ko, to the best of my knowledge, is still based in the Philippines and draws on fading (or faded, in some cases) HK talent to bolster his productions with thereby creating the illusion of a "Hong Kong production". But I digress...

So therefore his films simply aren't worth a toss? If there exists a Phillipines Movie Database, perhaps I need to check it out, since clearly these movies should only be discussed in forums related to the countries in which they were shot rather than those related to the Hong Kong has-beens who star in them? Call me lazy, but I'll just keep talking about them here. The people need to know!!

Actually, though, I realized after I wrote about the Ko films that I was setting myself up for another lesson, but what about FATAL PASSION, a Hong Kong movie with a Hong Kong cast and director, shot entirely in Hong Kong. In fact, that film is one BIG BIG reason why I firmly believe that older stuff SHOULD still be discussed. Because it wasn't back then, back when everybody was blowing Jackie and Sammo the first time around! I was hoping to find some info on Chang, in particular, but the internet can seem like such a limited place sometimes...I know the kinds of movies you're referring to when bemoan people discussing the same primary titles from the golden age "over and over and OVER" again, but this Hong Kong film seems to have been missed, as have many others, call them the secondary and tertiary films that the "vets" never bothered discussing when the subject was apparently fresher than it is now.

Hardly anyone out there these days seems interested in talking about contemporary HK cinema

I love talking about contemporary Hong Kong cinema that I've seen as much as I love talking about the old stuff. The problem is finding the time! Moving to the city here probably worsened the problem, as there's just so much more old stuff to choose from, and so cheap.

My goal is to keep rooting out movies I know the "elders" might have missed while they're focus was, and is, trained on the same old "must-have" titles, as you point out. There are now people who weren't even born when many of us first encountered Hong Kong cinema. And now they're old enough to start digging it, the old AND the new, and I'm sure they're gonna want to scour decades old newgroups to find some good conversation. No one has to share if they don't want to, but I'm always glad some folks do. And for newcomers and future newcomers to Hong Kong cinema, I sincerely hope that discussions of the old films will never die along with the interest of the older generation, but I DO hope those who find the time to catch up on the new stuff will share their thoughts here.

[Harlock]

i love the twins i don't buy many new release as much as old because they are so much old movies im interested in because hk cinema was so prolific in the 70's & 80's and because also im not into hk cinema as long then you guys, but i buy every new twins movies, sammo's,jackie's....

some new actors i like are:

Nicholas Tse Ting-Fung
Daniel Wu Yin-Cho
Edison Chen Koon-Hei
Shawn Yu Man-Lok
Chapman To Man-Chat
Jacky Wu Jing
Jess Zhang Xi

to name a few, but im not close at all to the new hk cinema, but even here its hard to find info on new release, i see what is out on dvd on asiandvdguide.com and i buy some guess

i would love to wrote more here but my engrish stop me because i know i can't debate my points as i would like...

+

ps: i think they will do twins mission 2, actually i hope

[Mike Thomason]

Brian,

I'm not discounting or marginalising anything you have to say, and I hope you realise that?

There were some really cool and well written folk out there, once upon a time, that were enthusiastic and passed on volumes about HK cinema as far back as the bad old days of the alt.asian-movies newsgroup (which one of our number seemed to hold up occasionally as the be-all and end-all of HK cinema discussion; however, it's moved into history like many of those people who made it such an interesting, and sometimes downright abhorrent, place to hang out a decade plus ago). I will admit, unlike today's medium of the discussion forums, places like that old newsgroup were flamers' paradises. You couldn't post a dissenting opinion from the masses without someone ripping you a new one for daring to be different!

And I used to correspond privately via email with some of those folk; it was they who said to me just before, and just after, the turn of the Millennium that there was nothing new being said about the old HK movies, or indeed nothing that hadn't been said a thousand times before. It was for those reasons that some of them packed their bags and moved on, having grown tired and bored of entering into discussions that ended up in the same places they had numerous times before for them. Many folk said to me that they'd love to talk contemporary cinema, but more and more they found forums just endlessly recycling and regurgitating the same data over and over again. For someone who wishes to remain vibrant and contemporary, nothing will stagnate their passions faster that feeling like one is stuck in an endless, rhetorical rut.

I don't mind to talk about the old as well as the new, but I seriously have to draw the line when it comes to the heyday of Category III movies (which was pretty much worn out by 1994), the eighties output of the Seven Fortunes, or the early nineties New Wave and people like Tsui Hark. Those are old, old topics to me that have been recycled and rehashed a thousand times over in the last twenty years. As another example, the below review of Doctor Lam that I wrote six years ago...

http://www.sexgoremutants.co.uk/drlamb.html

...has been regurgitated enmasse, in numerous forms (inclusive of people wholly plagiarising the review verbatim in message forum and on review sites) ever since it was first posted online where it is. I saw a poster in the forums at Ross Chen's LoveHKFilm site post my ENTIRE review, albeit with the paragraphs slightly moved around a little, and attempt to pass it off as his own work -- even a well known HK movie review website turned around and admitted to me that they had "borrowed" the majority of my review and posted it themselves as their own when pressed for reasoning as to exactly WHY their review was so similar to mine (inclusive of a couple of facts that were, and remain, unique to my review). Hence, when discussion on forums pops around to that tired old chestnut "What's your favourite Cat III movie?" I tend to tune out completely; for me it's been done, I've done it myself, and the whole thing has been done to death. Whilst I can appreciate new fans excitment and enthusiasm for these old films when they discover them, I can't really get excited about them myself anymore -- because the whole thing's run in circles for me for over a decade or more and I am, in all honesty, bored to death of reading the same old thing over and over.

Here's a forum where I hang out regularly...

http://www.dvdmaniacs.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7

...and what do you notice from perusing any of those topics? Yep, no-one wants to extend themselves anywhere remotely past their comfort zone of the same old boring, bland subjects that everyone talks about. I try and throw in comment about new films and the like -- silence. There's one guy in there, a student, who endlessly posts about the same handful of topics day in, day out, week in, week out, month in, month out, year in, year out -- do you have any idea how utterly boring it is to try and get conversation going in a such a forum and then some dullard interjects by trawling up a topic about "favourite John Woo films" that they posted three or four years ago which no-one responded to then either?

I think I will go and have a lie down...all this typing has worn me out and my brain is now starting to dry up...

[Mike Thomason]

i love the twins

Hooray! Someone with some sense at last!

Charlene or Gillian? Charlene's my fave as she's not afraid to take on some offbeat or challenging roles, and when she's in "Charlene" mode she has energy, charisma and screen presence to spare.

some new actors i like are:

Nicholas Tse Ting-Fung
Daniel Wu Yin-Cho
Edison Chen Koon-Hei
Shawn Yu Man-Lok
Chapman To Man-Chat
Jacky Wu Jing
Jess Zhang Xi

You won't hear me disagreeing with any of those folks, apart from Jess Zhang whom I haven't seen enough of to really generate an opinion on her as an actress yet. Edison is sorely underrated and critically devalued by far too many teenage armchair internet critics; he's a good kid with some decent screen presence and is developing well in his career. Shawn Yu and Daniel Wu have always impressed me, as has Nic Tse. The more I see of Chapman To the more I am convinced that he'll be remembered as one of the turn of the century's great character actors. Jacky (Jason) Wu did nothing for me initially, but I've warmed to him since Fatal Contact and Twins Mission (his role in SPL was one note and really only a showcase for his martial arts skills).

Glad this discussion has transformed into one that is drawing some interesting comments out of the woodwork.

[Brian Thibodeau]

I'm not discounting or marginalising anything you have to say, and I hope you realise that?

It's all cool. I'm just glad you've stuck this out as far as you have. On other topics, I'd have probably driven you away screaming by now! That said, I think we BOTH have very valid things to say on the subject, as does anyone else who cares to jump in, but it's clear we simply come to the party with different baggage, and I dare say yours is a little the worse for wear. But like you say, you go way back, and in a much more public sort of way. I go way back too, but in a much smaller sphere of influence. Which could be a blessing or a curse.

-----------------------------

Hooray! Someone with some sense at last!

(and yes, I'm secure enough to know that wasn't a jab!)

While I don't post many of them here, or anywhere else on the web for that matter, I do entertain myself by continuing to write reviews (of varying lengths) for a lot of the movies I watch (Hong Kong and otherwise). I used to get paid to do this for some newspapers, and just kinda kept doing it even after I moved on to other jobs. They may come in handy if I decide to take my current employers up on their standing offer to do reviews for our newspapers if I ever find the time—good filler for slow weeks! For what it's worth, I've found plenty of new favourites among the new crop of stars and starlets, but I'd respectfully disagree with a lot of the praise of Edison Chen (and I have indeed seen nearly all of his films, including DOG BITE DOG), but to each his own, right?

As to the others, Jess Zhang is likewise the only one on Harlock's list that I'm not overly familiar with. ALL of the others have impressed me in the past. Nic Tse was probably one of the reasons METADE FUMACA has long been in my top ten list! Plus, I went to great lengths to find the EEG compilation album that contained his theme song from it. I also thought we'd see a lot more from ALL the fresh faces in GIMME GIMME and TRUTH OR DARE, but I guess the current Hong Kong industry is only so big.

In fact, I dare say watching all these videogrammes you prefer to avoid has introduced me to some excellent young performers (and even some mature ones) who, thanks to the both the medium on which their movies were shot, and the dry years in which they were made, have gone on to relative obscurity while the new pop princes and princesses were enjoying their time in the spotlight.

Just based on what I've viewed since January, I could probably put together a modest list of names who very much deserved the chance someone like Edison Chen more or less had handed to him. I strongly doubt few people here or elsewhere would even be able to put faces to the names (and in some cases, the bloody filmmakers couldn't be bothered to place character names beside actor names, so deciphering names from credits is all but impossible). The fact that some of these folks—behind of and in front of the camera—never got the recognition is probably one reason I'll continue to seek out these kinds of ultra-low-budget movies and record my thoughts for...posterity?? (and believe it or not, the vast majority are NOT Cat. III )

So as far as having some sense goes, I gots me plenty. And I know others here who do as well. You just gotta coax it out the right way.


----------------------------------


Your comments about your adventures at other forums are always fascinating to me, and probably represent some interesting social archaeology in their own right. But honestly, Mike, it really sounds like you've got some understandable but deep-seated issues with a lot of those people (perhaps they're even members here? I don't know. Hell, I'm probably one of them!! ). But as you note the nature of some forums, including this one I like to think, have changed over the past 10 years. When I searched the alt.asian forums recently looking for something, ANYthing on FATAL PASSION (and I'm sorry, but it's a damned GOOD Cat. III film and it DESERVES more viewers), I found myself wandering through random threads, staring slackjawed at the sheer juvenilism on display back in those days. Flamers' Paradise doesn't even BEGIN to describe it. s**t, social maladjustment doesn't even begin to describe it. I actually felt disgusted that seemingly intelligent and verbose people could so swiftly devolve into the most childish mudslinging. I couldn't even begin to imagine wanting to be a part of that even if I HAD a computer back in those days. Despite the occasional flashes of serious, scholarly discussion, the poor sportsmanship far outweighed the good to the point that I could feel myself getting nauseous just reading it. And I've been to other "archives" (mainly via internet.org) where its clear the early days of internet discussion groups were kinda frightening sometimes.

But things have changed a bit over the years, even if the same old discussions drive someone such as yourself up the wall. But I've been finding "cracks" in that same-old, and I've been trying my best to draw attention to them. Comparing the number of views on the Digital Odyssey/Scrounge Threads (basically the two biggest of the past year or so) tells me things might be changing even just a little bit, and it's not because I started one or you started the other or anything like that, it's because we've got new faces, and some old ones unearthing things no one bothered with back in the glory days.

(as an aside, I'd like to point out how GLAD I am that the Shaw library was largely unavailable, at least in its present condition, back during the days of those mid-90's chat groups. That's another area of "old" discussion that I think is sorely underrepresented in light of the literallly hundreds of reissues, and I wish I could kickstart some good chats about the subject, expecially based on my favourable reaction to the BLACK MAGIC films. I once thought perhaps the high-minds at Mobius might be the ones to keep up on that stuff, but rare is the mention of any but the most commonly known Shaw releases over there! I suppose, like myself, many people have shelves or totes or closets overflowing with Celestial discs, so I wouldn't be surprised if the Digital Age has rendered everyone with too many movies and too little time!)

And I used to correspond privately via email with some of those folk; it was they who said to me just before, and just after, the turn of the Millennium that there was nothing new being said about the old HK movies, or indeed nothing that hadn't been said a thousand times before. It was for those reasons that some of them packed their bags and moved on, having grown tired and bored of entering into discussions that ended up in the same places they had numerous times before for them. Many folk said to me that they'd love to talk contemporary cinema, but more and more they found forums just endlessly recycling and regurgitating the same data over and over again. For someone who wishes to remain vibrant and contemporary, nothing will stagnate their passions faster that feeling like one is stuck in an endless, rhetorical rut.

This is what bothers me about what bothers you (and I do understand where you're coming from). Apart from the fact that vibrancy can and does exist in the discussion of old films, particularly when as few as one person involved in the talks is NEW to the format and genuinely interested in learning what you already know, these discussions have to start somewhere, with someone. Maybe if these luminaries had simply stuck it out, instead of wiping their hands clean of the whole situation, today's newcomers might at least have a wider variety of discussion to pick from. But instead, the vets drop in (and I'm not singling you out here, 'cause I've seen it elsewhere), make veiled and/or explicit commentary about how "behind" or "out of the loop" a lot of us are, and then disappear for long periods of time. Up to the individual, I suppose, but discussion of contemporary cinema can also mean more than posting a query about a movie (like the one that started this thread), then posting an eye-roll smiley when someone doesn't give a worthy response, and waving us off again.

(EDIT: Interestingly, I recall anticipating your thoughts on DAESEPO NAUGHTY GIRLS over in another thread 'round here. Found out at Koreanfilm.org that you gave it three asterisks. Still anticipating those thoughts! )

Believe me, your arguments make me want to go and rip open a tote or two of my 2005 or 2006 or 2007 movies just so you can't keep saying that nobody out there wants to discuss this stuff (but keep in mind, my behind-the-scenes knowledge is moderate, at best). And indeed, perhaps I need to "cut" my B-movie marathons with more recent material. So the best I can say is I'll see what I can do. I appreciate the fact that you didn't just abandon the HKMDB again after my first or second response to you in this thread, so that's gotta count for something!


Finally, I'd give anything if you'd change the heading of this thread to alert more people to the discussion within, since it really has taken on a life of it's own! If there is one thing that bugs me about me, it's my ability to indulge in these interesting back-and-forths in threads where the title gives no indication of what's going on inside!

[Mike Thomason]

Crikey! Boy have I got some replying to do now! I've changed the topic header, so hopefully that will stimulate a little wider discussion as we both hope?

1. Please don't persist in painting me as some tired old miserly and jaded HK film fan. I am not. Anyone with a strong interest in a particular hobby item will always eventually get to a plateau whereby they eventually feel out of the loop themselves, as surrounding discussion begins to feel either repetitive or rhetorical. I have just as much enthusiasm for HK movies as I did twenty years ago -- I am just finding far less people and outlets to discuss them with anymore, especially when I try my best to remain contemporary with the industry. The blog idea that Bob handed me didn't work for me because a) I felt like I was simply talking to myself and b) there was virtually no form of interaction there, which produced despondency and disinterest from me (hence the one post every four to six weeks). I don't hate everyone out here and dismiss them all as useless -- I am trying to provoke some discussion and garner some intelligent feedback as well as assess if there are other people out there like me that feel the same or similar ways about all of this.

2. The "sense" remark was wise crack, nothing more, nothing less.

3. I have no "deep-seated issues" with anyone – basically, if people are cool, they’re cool with me; likewise if they’re dicks, they’re dicks…I don’t lose sleep over it. I am just expressing my feelings and opinions and anybody is free to weigh in. What a bunch of us "veterans" and younger enthusiastic folk need to do is create the "Asian Movie Utopia" board, where we can all discuss things in a more elevated manner and get animated discussions going -- it wouldn't be hard to set up a message board or something similar somewhere, would it (there’s got to be something either free or financially manageable out there somewhere, surely)? The recurrent theme that I see here is that people are unable to find a forum that they are comfortable with, that offers the kind of discussion that they’d like to engage in (irrespective of language proficiency) and where they’re happy to share their tastes.

Too many extant forums skirt decent discussion, degenerate into DVD trainspotting in favour of actual film appraisal, or are simply out and out dens for flamers and trolls. I would be more than happy to either moderate or co-moderate a (hopefully intelligent) Asian film forum; albeit there would be strict rules about flaming, trolling and devaluing discussions with over-emphasis on techno-babble bullshit jargon (yes, I’m being deadly serious about that). I’ve been a mod before on another forum, and I know I’m a pretty lax one at that, so the duties would have to be shared by someone (or joint moderators) with (a) similar mindset as myself in that emphasis is placed on genuine film discussion and not home video presentation tech-rubbish – there’s more than enough forums out there that do that kind of thing already. If anyone’s interested in setting up such an idyllic medium for the respectful discussion of Asian cinema, you know where to find me.

4. I was a bit pre-emptive in the scoring of those South Korean films and I’ve amended them accordingly. Some of those titles are simply sitting here waiting to be seen, or still on their way via airmail; in the rush to get something up to maybe assist me with finding more titles to my tastes I ended up bunging on scores willy-nilly. I blame these multitudes of medications that I am on at present to keep me from having a relapse of ill health and potentially ending up back in hospital, or worse.

5. I’m NOT saying nobody is discussing contemporary films – I’m saying that very few to almost nobody is discussing them much these days. If nobody were discussing them we wouldn’t be here right now having this conversation, right?

6. Regarding Barbara Wong’s Truth Or Dare: 6th Floor Rear Flat…I thought pretty much everyone there went on to greater things? Karena Lam was most recently seen in Taiwanese ghost film Silk; Candy Lo has appeared in a plethora of films since it was made and is a regular face in current HK cinema; Lawrence Chou pops up periodically around the place and showed up in the Pang Brothers’ Re-Cycle as well as acted as the narrator for Jingle Ma’s Happy Birthday; Patrick Tang is still out and about as I remember seeing him in Wo Hu and the trailer for Lady Iron Chef; and Sammy Leung was a popular radio deejay (one half of a team with Kitty Yuen) before he hit cinema screens and has sprung up like clockwork in a handful of movies every year. Surely I’m not more aware of most of these young folk than most here? No, I’m not being facetious; it seems an odd off the cuff comment to make that one would have liked to have seen them go on to more since the film…when they have positively dominated the marketplace since 2003…

7. Don’t read so much into what I type as being dismissive of fandom as a whole or holding my peers in low regard or under a cloud of condescension, as that’s not the case. I speak my mind from my own perspective and viewpoint, that’s all I do. Nobody has to like it and everyone is free to debate me on these topics – just don’t try and typecast me as Mr Know-it-all HK Film Guru sitting in his ivory tower looking down on you all. Nothing is further from the truth. I am just an oft published writer* who has been enthusiastically watching and enjoying these movies for over two decades; sure I get a bit rundown doing the circular discussion thing because I like to shoot the breeze on NEW things more than old, but that’s just me. A film industry friend said to me, only just recently in fact, that I am the only person he knows like me – I have my favourites in the entertainment field but I always maintain a consistent and enthusiastic interest in staying current on things (ie: I love new things, but still appreciate the older things that came before without dwelling on the past) and have thereby ended up being “younger” than him although we are the same age.

…and now, I need a rest, as this discussion has sapped me of a lot of strength and energy under my current health conditions. When I’m back on top of things we’ll take this up a level.

* Yes, I now have a regular gig again writing Asian film reviews in an American cult film magazine -- nothing ever beats being published in PRINT media for me.

[Contrai]

This thread was a classic example -- amidst THE online database for HK movies, and amongst a phalanx of people one would expect to be at least making a moderate effort to stay abreast of the industry...not a solitary response! Never mind that the film was one of THE major releases for this past Chinese New Year holiday season, no-one here saw it!

I watched it, rite now. In all its incomprehensibility the movie is mildly amusing, due to the infantile plot in bubblegum-aesthetic with a lot of fast-paced fake kung fu.
And in the german boards it's also a film, the people at least mention, if not really talking about.
The 'forerunners' Twins Effect 1 + 2 & House of Fury were released here, even Enter the Phoenix; so probably this one also gets a publication.

For sure the HK cinema isn't in the best situation, and goin' through the coming april attractions Super Fans, Love is not around , Call Me Left, The Funeral, Sweet Revenge and Dancing Lion its clearly, why.
I try to keep on track with contemporary HK cinema, because I loved exploring this exotic kinetic energy a decade ago. But it's not easy with this recent uninteresting, bland stuff.

[Mike Thomason]

For sure the HK cinema isn't in the best situation, and goin' through the coming april attractions Super Fans, Love is not around , Call Me Left, The Funeral, Sweet Revenge and Dancing Lion its clearly, why.

I try to keep on track with contemporary HK cinema, because I loved exploring this exotic kinetic energy a decade ago. But it's not easy with this recent uninteresting, bland stuff.

Of course, "isn't in the best situation" and "uninteresting, bland stuff" are all personal opinion over being bonafide fact. Blanket statements like that are really down to what people prefer to watch at a personal level; for example, if one is only interested in kung fu and violent action films then contemporary HK cinema won't harbour much to offer you.

However, if you are interested in a wider range of genres, as well as accepting that all film industries go through transitional phases and their product MUST be tailored towards the immediate (domestic) marketplace to remain competitive and alive, then just like it always has HK still holds a LOT to offer.

But once again, it's all really just a matter of personal opinion. With each passing year scores of Western naysayers drag out the tired old adage "HK cinema is dead", yet every year it's still here and still turning out films that make a profit as well as draw audiences on the domestic front -- I wonder why that is? Could it be that it has evolved and transformed in accordance with its marketplace, whilst the majority of online overseas fans have not? Hmmm...

[Brian Thibodeau]

EDIT: sorry to take so long replying. Wrote most of this earlier, but got called back into the office. Life would be so much better if we didn't have to work!

Crikey! Boy have I got some replying to do now! I've changed the topic header, so hopefully that will stimulate a little wider discussion as we both hope?

Thanks for that, Mike! Seems like it's already working a teensy bit, eh?

If only we could've done that on previous threads where these heated discussions have popped up. And the usual apologies if I've offended or been overly sensitive to your responses (including the most recent ones!) or worse, irritated any existing health problems. Definitely not my intention!!!!

You're very strong in your opinions and you're one of the few people who I believe can get across an actual tone of voice using a keyboard (via the use of smilies, italics, underlines, etc.), which can unfortunately make someone like me feel like everyone is being grouped together when you speak on a subject like this one, which of course makes the debate all that much stronger. I honestly don't enjoy making anyone feel like they have to explain themselves, but sometimes your posts make me feel the same way, thus my rambling feedback! Agree to disagree, perhaps? As you say, nobody has to agree, and everyone is free to debate you. I'm just the kind of fella that likes to pick up those gauntlets once in a while!

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Don't know if I need to address everything you've put forth, because as usual, I actually understand your frame of reference, even if I obviously don't share it.

One thing in point #1, though: I always thought your blog had potential. Who gave a s**t how often it was updated? I'm not sure why you would have ever felt disappointed in not updating it on a daily basis or whatever. I'm lucky if I put up a new entry a month! And who cares if you're largely talking to yourself. That's what great about a lot of the blogs I read. People can post feedback if they want, but it's not a formal discussion forum. Screw 'em if they don't like what you say, or think you're wasting space. I doubt more than five people read my blog, based on the feedback I've received. It's pretty bland, I must admit, and typically long-winded. But really, it's just a slow-to-build repository for the kooky esoterica I find interesting. I actually though yours was fun to read, but I rarely felt any need to attack or even comment. I liked it for the voice it offered, regardless of whether I agree with that voice in these forums or not. The only time I was left agape was at your "15 minutes of fame" piece, which seemed to echo the thoughts you've brought up in this thread and others, but obviously, I figured it wasn't designed to elicit a response from too many people!

Oh, and one more thing about point #1. If you're goal is to provoke discussion and assess feedback, I hope I've proven once and for all that I'm willing to go above and beyond the call of duty with you and anyone else in this regard, and on many occasions here (including the occasional one where you disappear for a length, no doubt fed up with the whole deal ). I honestly can't and needn't make more clear that I can and WILL discuss anything I am able to for as long as someone cares to open the debate. Unfortunately, that does make me a bit dry when it comes to the actual viewing of new releases, but I'm no less aware of them, so I can try to bring whatever I can to the table!


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As to the utopian forum concept put forth in point #3, I think it would be a cool idea. In this day and age though, with so many forums so firmly established—for better or worse, I know—I wonder if it would draw in enough people. The reason I say this is I'm reminded of a very decent chap named Toan Hoag (he was Asian, but I never did find out the origin of his name) who tried to to this very thing a few years ago. He was a sometime contributor (yes, a relative newbie, I'm afraid) to places like Mobius, HTF and, a couple of others that I didn't bother with. He built his site, called it asianboxoffice.com or hongkongboxoffice.com or something like that, then invited people of all levels of experience at those various forums to stop by for discussions (without abandoning their faves, of course). He also had a news section not unlike the one Dennis puts together here, though it was angled largely towards Hong Kong cinema, and included handy Asia-specific box office stats that seem to be all but ignored these days. Anyways, I swear to you, it could have been exactly what you're talking about. He started out with the usual forums: Hong Kong Movies, Korean Movies, Japanese Movies, Off-Topic, DVDs, etc. In a very short time, he split off MORE forums for Taiwanese Movies, Thailand Movies, Phillipines Movies, Malaysian Movies and possibly a couple of others. I think he probably got about 15 or so regulars in the forums, but sadly, the discussions were usually quite short (and nothing at all like this one we're having now!) and in time, you could sense people drifting back to the more established places. I believe the site is now decommissioned, but archive.org might have some remnants, though I've never actually checked. Obviously, I'd worry about the survival odds of yet another discussion forum cropping up amidst to many established ones, regardless of whether one thinks the established ones are worthy of contributing to. I suspect the constant promotion required to draw people and keep them would be tiresome.

(EDIT: The Wayback machine is my best friend. Typed asianboxoffice . com in at archive.org and came back with a few hits. Sadly, the info they managed to archive/salvage is in bits and pieces, and nothing at all representative of how the site looked when it was launched. A shame, because he definitely put alot into it. I won't bother posting links, cause what's left is literally a shell, but the curious can cut and paste www .asianboxoffice . com (minus the gaps) into their search window at http://www.archive.org and you'll see a few columns of links to saved material. In fact, seeing these now, I really gotta give that guy credit: for awhile, he was one of the few armchair Asian film buffs kind enough with his own time to actually seek out all the Asian-film and celebrity related news he could find, even translating some of it. Obviously, Sanney did it better before his troubles, but there weren't too many others besides these two who were trying to coral all the info into one handy place. Naturally, we have Dennis for that now... )

Does the "flaming, trolling and devaluing discussions with over-emphasis on techno-babble bullshit jargon" really go on here? I'm having difficulty finding much of it in these forums with any regularity. Asiandvdguide, sure, but here? On the other hand, not everyone here hangs out at other forums, or necessarily CARES what goes on, or went on, at them! (although when I DO browse around such places, I do see some familiar names and writing styles) I know the odd person here has incurred an eye-rolling smiley for broaching the dreaded DVD topic, but the occasional mere mention of such things has hardly cost these forums any members (even you seem to come back, Mike, against what I'd imagine is your better judgment ). If discussions here, or at a more "utopian" Asian cinema forum, were to simply repeat information that one could find in more detail at other sites, then I suppose I could understand the desire to limit the discussion, but not if was really only troubling to one person! Wouldn't really be a utopia then.

Truth is, I've long wished Bob could split the "Asian Movies" forum into several regional threads (Japanese, Korean, etc.) . I suspect if he's even bothering to read this thread, he'd have his reasons for not doing it, but it would sure make it easier for someone like yourself to pick and choose which sub-forums to avoid. For example, if we had a Phillipines Movies forum, then you'd have no need to remind me that me the aforementioned Phillip Ko movies starring Hong Kong has-beens acting in Cantonese and/or Mandarin are not officially part of the HK canon. You and others could simply avoid such forum altogether, knowing full well there'd be nothing in it worthy of your time. (honestly speaking, I don't care where the once Hong Kong cinema-associated Ko shot his movies, but they're hardly part of whatever passes for the "Phillipines Cinema" canon and they most definitely do NOT deserve to be brushed and never reviewed off because of their bastardized nature!).

The argument, should anyone care to make it, that a database devoted to Hong Kong cinema can't have discussion forums related to other cinemas of the region that people might develop an interest in BECAUSE of Hong Kong cinema just won't hold water with me, and I can live with the forums the way they are come what may. Heck, even the "Asian Movies" thread wasn't here originally, as I recall, but obviously people here needed a little area to share info on NON-Hong Kong films with other interested souls. I simply think it could survive being broken down a little further. I won't be surprised if people disagree with me on this one (including you Mike) but there it is. It might not create a utopia, but it would be a start, and it might help the vibrant progressives avoid the newcomers and the old film buffs altogether.

Otherwise, who knows, by the time I'm back to being "current" with Hong Kong cinema, you might actually have your website up and running, and then you'll be able to create and control your own utopian discussion forum as an offshoot! Could be cool.


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As to point #6, you're absolutely not the only one who follows the youngsters these days, so please perish the thought , although you're welcome to feel secure in the knowledge that you're more up-to-the-minute than a lot of us. I should have been more clear in my earlier post in stating that I felt few of the stars in those movies (you didn't respond to the cast from GIMME GIMME, though) achieved the same LEVEL of fame as a Nic Tse or an Edison Chen or even a Shawn Yue. I'm well aware they're still out there, kicking around as it were (Karena Lam, and did NOT mean to imply my own ignorance as to their present whereabouts (thanks to the HKMDB, I often peruse DB listings here out of nothing more than aimless curiosity long before I tuck the DVDs away for future viewing). So, what you read as an "odd of the cuff comment" wasn't intended as one. Again, the nature of typed forums being what they are, I've learned I really need to be more careful in any discussion I have, especially with someone such as yourself, who's always standing by with a rebuttal. But really, "dominating the market since 2003"? Come ooooonnnn, that's a bit of a stretch . Not a whole one, mind you, but a BIT of one. Karena Lam notwithstanding, the rest have indeed into fine, consistently-employed, reliable co-stars & supporting players to higher-profile leads. but in terms of sheer wattage (not just talent), they don't quite compare with the likes of some of the performers on Harlock's list, sporadic though more prominent appearance may be. Nothing wrong with maintaining a presence, I always say! But really, I honestly believed many in that batch (and even some of the ones in the aforementioned, and noticeably avoided, GIMME GIMME) easily had the potential to be the next Gillian or Nic or Edison or Shawn. Well, maybe not the next Edison. He's just...unique. Discuss!

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And finally, your mention of your published reviews reminded me of something I literally stumbled across recently. I watched a movie called LAST GHOST STANDING a couple of weeks back. Wrote a little blurb afterwards to amuse myself, then came here and perused the opinons (two for, two against, including Ryan's original). Then I did a web search and wouldn't you know, I come across your old review at sexgoremutants which, while typically solid, starts off with an none-too-subtle dismissal of what I assume to be some unidentified-but-possibly-specific people who enjoyed the film. I just wasn't sure what to make of it, as it was your thoughts on the actual film that were the most interesting to me personally. But that opening salvo really is different! Beyond that, and as someone who actually DID like the film all these sad years later, I totally understood your criticism of it, but I enjoyed it nonetheless (which I guess is the nature of movies). Not as much as, say, BIO-ZOMBIE as far as tongue-in-cheek horror goes, but definitely worth my time. But I have to say, that seemed a puzzling way to lead off a review. I found myself wondering who it might have been aimed at back then, but with our current asides about what discussion forums were like even as recently as 1999, I can imagine there might have been a long list of candidates!

And you're right, it is pretty nice to be published in print, as I and a couple others here have been as well at various times. Granted, it'd be better to be printed in something with national circulation, but hey, any port in a storm, eh? :lol So where can I find this publication? It was Bloody Disgusting, wasn't it, or have I got the wrong publication? Either way, I'd imagine it's gotta be floating around this city somewhere.

[Mike Thomason]

The flaming and DVD thing generally doesn't happen here -- it's something I see at the other forums I frequent and/or read (well, I frequent one and read a number of others); and it BORES ME SENSELESS! I am convinced that some people simply don't know how to discuss films without having to devalue it all down to the tech side of the equation! Such a drudge to read...

I didn't comment on Gimme Gimme because, after all these years, I still haven't watched it. My DVD does have a nice sheen of dust though...

The old Last Ghost Standing review, hey? Gee, I'd forgotten that was even out there! There is a completely revised version that will go up on the site when things get rolling there (my designer advised he would contact me this week while I'm off work but as I expected...nothing!), so I wouldn't worry about the old one if I was you. Who was/were the mystery individual(s)? Honestly, even I can't remember...

Okay, I get the point! You like Phillip Ko films! Each to his own and all that...

I think I'll focus on getting some stuff written for the website for the day that my designer eventually remembers that I am paying for internet hosting that thus far has been dead money and actually contacts me or does something with the site -- at least I'll be doing something constructive.

Gotta scoot! (haha)

[Brian Thibodeau]

Okay, I get the point! You like Phillip Ko films! Each to his own and all that...

Oh very funny! NOW you're all brief and to the point and stuff.

Actually, some of Ko's last gasps are better than the stuff he made while he was welcome in Hong Kong. You really should give them a try some time.

I didn't comment on Gimme Gimme because, after all these years, I still haven't watched it. My DVD does have a nice sheen of dust though...

No problem. I won't tell anyone....

The old Last Ghost Standing review, hey? Gee, I'd forgotten that was even out there!

Yeah, damned thing was, like, somewhere on the third page of hits when I typed in the title to search for it. Had to wade through a crazy amount of retail websites first!

[Mike Thomason]

The old Last Ghost Standing review, hey? Gee, I'd forgotten that was even out there!

Yeah, damned thing was, like, somewhere on the third page of hits when I typed in the title to search for it. Had to wade through a crazy amount of retail websites first!

To take this whole thing really off topic...I present for you (Brian, that is) the new and revamped Last Ghost Standing review as re-written circa 2002/03, or thereabouts. Enjoy!

Last Ghost Standing (1999)
Directed by Billy Chung
Produced by Frankie Ng, Sherming Yiu
Written by Billy Chung
Music by
Starring Simon Lui, Sherming Yiu, Frankie Ng, Wayne Lai, Amanda Lee, Francis Ng, Pinky Cheung, Angela Tong, Benny Chan, Paulyn Suen, Chin Kar Lok
85m

It’s the last night of the passing Millennium, December 31st 1999, and Yeung (Simon Lui) has been saddled with his last shift as projectionist, albeit the very last session for the soon to be defunct Broadway Cinema. With rampant VCD piracy growing, and a dramatic downturn in attendances, the dilapidated old theatre has struck its last hours, administrators placing the establishment into liquidation. Settling in to his last evening of gainful employment with steadfast girlfriend Yiu Yiu (Sherming Yiu) by his side, Yeung wistfully laments his future fortunes and abilities to provide for his loving partner, frightfully ill-prepared for the run of surprises the old building will thrust upon him during the encroaching hours towards the stroke of midnight. Somewhere within the depths of the creaking monstrosity lurks forces beyond the blissful couples’ comprehension, and they’re much more frightening than the manic grumblings of Yeung’s highly-strung manager, the slightly-more-than-edgy Cheung (Wayne Lai).

Unbeknownst to all parties, a nosy administrator has unleashed freaky forces in the bowels of the building and before anyone realises what’s going on, something small, red, and rather toothy has eaten the candy bar girl (Amanda Lee). Yiu Yiu is visited upon in the empty stalls by a flamboyantly dressed stranger (Francis Ng) sporting a creepy taste in mascara, who may (or may not) be the Devil himself. Questioning Yeung’s love for her, the stranger offers forth a test of Yeung’s heart, before transforming the doe-eyed Yiu into a floating head. Beset by all manner for ghosts and demons, Yeung and Cheung are left little in response but to bounce out of their socks in justifiable horror. But the night has only just begun, and with the entrance of a trio of stoned party-goers (Karen Tong, Pinky Cheung & Benny Chan) plus the appearance of a policewoman (Paulyn Suen) who answered Cheung’s call on her way to a rave, the Devil has more than enough party guests to have his brand of demented fun with as 2000 looms on the clock. But is the apocalypse upon all trapped within the theatre or, like the mortals that surround him, is Satan just having one last playful bash before a new era is ushered in?

Since their inception at the tail-end of nineties, independent Hong Kong production house Buddy Film Creative Workshop has turned out cost-effective, fiercely entertaining commercial productions at a rate of knots that would only ever be possible within the confines of the Hong Kong film industry. Sure, there have been a couple of mis-fires along the way (Marco Mak’s The Replacement Suspect (2001), a slavish revisualising of Kevin Spacey’s Albino Alligator, being at the forefront), but by and large Buddy’s output has been slickly produced low budget fare that entertains more often than not. Unsurprisingly, Last Ghost Standing nestles in comfortably amidst their more accessible productions, eschewing the mock-serious scares of their Ring inspired peers (ala Tony Leung Hung Wah’s A Wicked Ghost (1999) etc), coming over more as an affectionate homage (and throwback) to the region’s monumental comic-horror cinematic history. Last Ghost shares more in common with past hits of the variety of Mr. Vampire (1985) and their ilk than any of the successive straight-laced horror-fests that would sully forth at the turn of the Millennium. In turn, this means that it’s largely a cheap, cheerful and cheesy affair, yet one that wears its cut-price heart on its sleeve.

Based upon a novel by former radio DJ, and regional horror specialist Simon Lui, Last Ghost knowingly plays upon its cinema setting, thumbing its nose at horror conventions as well as the very films that inspired much of its hilarity along the way. Whilst some viewers would perceive certain passages of the film as out and out plagiarism (with two sequences lifted virtually verbatim from Sam Raimi’s Evil Dead II, 1987), it becomes apparent early in the piece that this is exactly what co-writer Lui and director Chung intended, as all parties involved are clearly having a tremendous amount of fun at their subject matter’s expense. As noted above, although popular character actor Wayne Lai doesn’t harbour the savvy to pull off physical comedy the way Bruce Campbell did in Raimi’s film, it’s no small delight to see the “man against possessed body part” sequence recreated herein and transplanted to a distinctly Hong Kong motif. Lai’s manic intensity does, however, lend immeasurably to the sequence and its successive coda, providing yet another memorable moment in bent cinema for Lai to add to his resume (Lord knows how the man does it! His repertoire must be huge!). His pronouncement in character that he “is from the underworld! I cannot die!” brought welcome guffaws from this viewer (in itself a sly dig at the then burgeoning Goo Wat Jai sub-genre initiated by Andrew Lau’s Young And Dangerous, 1996).

Of the remainder, both those in front of and behind the camera are clearly running with the hyperactive script and having a grand old time in the process. Associate producer Sherming Yiu, an adorable little actress I have grown quite fond of over time, lends engaging empathy to her part almost solely through her ability to manipulate her comically large eyes to striking effect, playing out doe-eyed innocence on one hand and glowering malevolence on the other (yes, she makes for an effectively frightening severed head!). Screenwriter and lead Simon Lui, given over to more intense, disquieting characterisations of recent years, affords himself the chance to act the clown, goofing off as only Lui is capable of (His comic battle with Yiu’s severed head is worth the price of admission alone). Lui and Yiu work well together onscreen and, against a backdrop of enjoyably cheesy rubber monstrosities engineered (for what looks like pocket-change) by Sam Ho, give the viewer a strong heart to identify with amongst all the crazed, rapid-fire shenanigans. And let’s not neglect to mention Chin Kar Lok’s cameo, in a merciless piss-take of Jackie Chan that makes Wong Jing’s High Risk (1995) seem rather restrained by comparison…

Back it all up with the usual low-brow humour we have all come to expect from Hong Kong comedy (a wacky denizen of hell composed entirely of faecal matter, fear-induced flatulence attracting the unwanted attention of a stalking monster, and an erection joke that comes way out of left field), as well as some impressively zippy visuals (Yiu suspended above the cinema stalls via chains directly from Hell doused in a tidal wave of blood comes to mind), and you’ve easily had a pretty manically enjoyable hour and half of fun. In 1999 I was quick to write this one of off as unmitigated trash of the lowest order, yet some years on (and with a completely different perspective) it’s now far easier to tap into its crazed energy, self-deprecating humour, and bottomless sense of self parody. It’s certainly not a film that will rock anyone’s world, but as a throwback to a bygone era of Hong Kong horror it’s a refreshingly rewarding treat (albeit, one that has its fair share of gross-out gags). Well worth giving a whirl; only catching it in a creaky old cinema could make the experience anymore enjoyable than it already is…

Ta-da!

[Brian Thibodeau]

Well, I'll be a son-of-a-gun! For once we agree on something with virtually NO discussion!

http://hkmdb.com/db/reviews/show_review.mhtml?id=13079
(posted April 3)
(and please keep all snickering to yourselves. When it comes to reviews, yes, I write short form!)


Now, is it just my wonky browser, or is there suddenly one less review over at sexgoremutants? I was about to comment on how times have certainly changed, but it appears my upper hand has been conveniently chopped off!

[MrBooth]

Well, my copy of TWINS MISSION arrived today... that's all I have to contribute to the discussion right now

[Brian Thibodeau]

Hell, I still haven't picked mine up yet, and look at what I've contributed! Does that count as irony?

[Mike Thomason]

Hell, I still haven't picked mine up yet, and look at what I've contributed! Does that count as irony?

Hold on! After all of this...you haven't even seen the film?

[Brian Thibodeau]

Hell, this thread started to wobble right around the fine print in post #6 as I recall. The discussion hasn't really been about this film for days now!

Take a peek at post #5 . I was in there for around the last 60 minutes of it, and watched probably the last 40-45 virtually uninterrupted once it hooked me (the store ladies probably thought I was trying to score a free screening!). I've kept mum about it here because I generally don't comment on films I haven't seen in their entirety and, not having seen most of the set-up, there were bits and pieces I didn't fully understand.

Hope that clarifies.

[Contrai]

Sorry, same as "majority of online overseas fans" i buy what i like to see, why should i change my taste according to the products ?
If HK cinema invests in mahjong-comedies with Roger Kwok, I'm hardly grateful for that. Thats just imbalance of supply and demand.

I never said the HK cinema is dead, and i'm looking forward . But being overly euphemistic, see things through rose-colored glasses and talking about crap [ of course it's personal opinion ] like Last Ghost Standing and Phillip Kos filmography doesn't make it better.

[Brian Thibodeau]

But being overly euphemistic, see things through rose-colored glasses and talking about crap [ of course it's personal opinion ] like Last Ghost Standing and Phillip Kos filmography doesn't make it better.

It may not make it better for you, but it definitely makes it better for us! Some you win, some you lose, and frankly, Mike nailed it a few posts back:

However, if you are interested in a wider range of genres, as well as accepting that all film industries go through transitional phases and their product MUST be tailored towards the immediate (domestic) marketplace to remain competitive and alive, then just like it always has HK still holds a LOT to offer.

While I have to admit I haven't got around to watching a lot of my new releases yet, I still get stoked every time I peruse a rack of new titles, or see what's on offer at the usual online retailers. That's not a feeling I get at the local Blockbuster. And I usually manage to find something good in nearly everything I watch...including "crap" like LAST GHOST and Phillip Ko's movies. If the Hong Kong filmmakers see an opening worthy of a gambling comedy with Roger Kwok, I'm willing to give it a chance to see why. In fact, KUNG FU MAHJONG 3 was a recent purchase... Haven't heard good things about it, but I do like to be a completist when it comes to series....